Applied Linguistics and TESOL at Macquarie University

Good evening, everyone, and thanks very much for tuning into this webinar on applied linguistics and TESOL at Macquarie University. TESOL, as most of you probably know, stands for Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages, and it’s part of the broad area that we call applied linguistics. I think this is a really fascinating area for anyone who’s got a passion for language. Often I talk to people who have long been passionate about language in one way or another. Maybe they’ve studied languages at school, or maybe they’ve grown up speaking two or more languages and have been curious about the experiences they’ve been through and the experience that others have with language. Whatever your interest in language, applied linguistics and TESOL can offer a pathway into a variety of exciting careers. So what I’ll do tonight is just explain briefly the programmes that we have in this area and talk about some of the careers that people get into from these programmes. Many people ask me what applied linguistics is. It’s not something that people study at school. It’s not something that is often well understood by people.

Basically, applied linguistics is the application of language studies or language study to understand and offer solutions to real-life problems. So it’s basically applying a study of language, an understanding of language, to solve problems in the real world. Now, you might wonder what these pictures are on this particular slide. You’ll see, at the bottom of one of the pictures it says, “Life for a linguist.” And the person on the slide in the left is actually doctor Heather Jackson, who is a linguist. But she’s here working with a major infrastructure project in New South Wales which involved the building of very long tunnels under the northwestern suburbs in Sydney. And Heather’s an applied linguist, but she works half time at Macquarie University as an academic, teaching in applied linguistics, and the other half of the time she works in industry as a communications consultant.

So she’s applying her linguistics knowledge in a very, very practical way, in facilitating communication between the various parties that are involved in these major infrastructure projects, most notably the residents who are affected by construction happening near their homes. So this is just one example of an innovative way in which people use knowledge in applied linguistics and expertise in applied linguistics to create their own kinds of career paths. And often, when we think about what you can do with applied linguistics, it’s a good idea to think back to what other skills or interests people have.

Because often people have had another career beforehand, they may have studied another degree beforehand, and they may be interested in combining an interest in language, an expertise in language studies, with something that they’ve done before. So our programmes in applied linguistics and TESOL are postgraduate programmes. And this means that anyone basically with a completed bachelor’s degree and an interest in language and its use in human interactions can apply for one of these degree programmes. It doesn’t matter if your bachelor’s degree is closely related to linguistics or language study, or whether it’s in a completely different area. You’re still eligible to apply for these programmes. And I’ll say a little bit more about that in a moment. So just to give you an overview, we have programmes to suit professionals in fields where in-depth understanding of language and communication is important. So people who are already established in a particular profession – perhaps they are HR consultants, human resources consultants, or perhaps they are accountants, or perhaps they work for a hospital in various areas – they can all benefit from a study of applied linguistics in helping them to understand how communication happens in their particular disciplines.

We also have programmes for students who are interested in pursuing further doctoral studies in the future. We have programmes for people who are interested in being language teachers and interested in getting into the profession of English language teaching. And we also have programmes to suit experienced language teachers who are seeking to enhance their qualifications and take their careers to the next level. So I’ll now talk a little bit about the specific degree programmes that we have, and you’ll be able to see, I think, how these match up with some of the areas that I’ve just outlined. One of our programmes is the Graduate Certificate of TESOL. Now, as its name implies, it’s a graduate certificate, so it’s open to people who have completed bachelor’s degree studies. Again, as I mentioned, in any particular field. The convener of that programme is my colleague Dr.

Philip Chappell, and his email address is up there on the slide, at the moment. And I’ll just tell you a little bit about how this programme works. The Graduate Certificate in TESOL is an entry level qualification into the field of teaching English to speakers of other languages. On its own, it won’t qualify people to teach in the public school system in New South Wales or in other states in Australia. But we do have many people who are already teaching in primary and high schools in Australia doing the Graduate Certificate in TESOL. Because what it does give them, is it gives them what’s called an ESL specialisation, a specialisation in teaching English as a second language.

So if people are already qualified to teaching that system, then this can be an added qualification which gives them the specialisation in English as a second language. People who are with this particular qualification sometimes teach on migrant English programmes for people newly arrived in Australia, refugee English programmes, and the big area that they teach is in international students programmes which are offered around Australia, but in universities and private colleges. So most universities in Australia have an English language centre associated with them, and these English language centres all employ a number of TESOL teachers. Overseas, some people use the Graduate Certificate in TESOL as a way of traveling the world, because in many parts of the world there’s a demand for English language teachers, and in the past it was often possible to get a job teaching English without any particular qualifications in English language teaching.

That’s probably still possible in some parts of the world, but in many parts of the world employers are looking for some qualification in English language teaching. And certainly, a university level Graduate Certificate in TESOL, such as the one that Macquarie offers, is a really good choice. So people overseas do teach at schools and universities, private colleges, English language colleges, English conversation schools, and also, sometimes, companies employ English language teachers overseas to offer in-house English language training for their employees.

The Graduate Certificate of TESOL basically consists of four courses. We call these courses units, at Macquarie, and it can be done in six months full-time, just one semester, or it can be spread over a longer duration, part-time. People who complete the Graduate Certificate of TESOL do courses in language teaching methodologies, planning and programming in TESOL, and linguistics and language teaching. So three coursework units and one practicum unit. So four units altogether. The practicum basically involves placement in a language school or language centre and doing demonstration language teaching lessons, receiving feedback from experts as part of completing that programme. And this is important, because employers, when they’re seeking to employ language teachers, are often concerned about whether the programme that they’ve completed has contained a practicum unit.

So has their teaching actually been observed? Have they actually been in a real classroom and done some teaching? As I mentioned, this graduate certificate can be completed in one semester full-time, or two or three semesters part-time, if you prefer. And one of the big advantages is that you can study the whole programme face-to-face on campus, or you can study the whole programme online. If you have work commitments that prevent you from getting into lectures, or you live away from Macquarie University and wouldn’t be able to get to the campus, you can complete the whole programme online.

It’s designed to be done that way. And you can also mix the two modes if you like. So some people study some parts of the programme face-to-face, and other parts online. To get into the Graduate Certificate in TESOL, you need to have a completed bachelor’s degree. It can be in any field. We recognise that people come into language teaching and applied linguistics sometimes from very different areas. And that’s all right. And in fact it enriches the discipline considerably, having people with different backgrounds coming into it. So the fact that some applied linguists began life as accountants, or medical doctors, or lawyers, or engineers, is a great asset to the field of applied linguistics, and allows them to understand in unique ways how language and communication is used in those particular fields. English language proficiency is important for people who are coming from outside, who’ve completed their studies in a language other than English, their bachelor’s degree.

There is an IELTS requirement which is 6.5, a score of overall. And the Graduate Certificate in TESOL articulates into our master’s programme, which I’ll say a little bit more about in a moment. Our master’s degrees in applied linguistics, we have two of them. One is called the Master of Applied Linguistic and TESOL, and the other is simply called the Master of Applied– and I’ll explain how these work.

People can come into the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL similar to the way that they come into the Graduate Certificate of TESOL. They can have a bachelor’s degree in a closely related area, or in any area of study. If people are coming into the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL with no relevant language teaching or language-related experience, and a degree in a different area, the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL degree would take two years full-time to complete. And this is because it includes, as a baseline, the units that are part of the Graduate Certificate in TESOL. So the units that I’ve just described to you are part of the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL, and they would usually be completed near the beginning. And there will be a two-year total time frame. For people who come in with what we call a cognate bachelor’s degree – this is a bachelor’s degree in a closely related area – or people who already have language teaching experience, they would be able to do the programme in one-and-a-half years full-time.

It can be done part-time, of course, but this is a full-time equivalent length. So for people who come in with no previous experience in the field and a bachelor’s degree in another field, it takes four semesters, or two years full-time equivalent to do the course. For those who come in with a cognate bachelor’s degree, a relevant bachelor’s degree or a language teaching experience, it would take them three semesters full-time equivalent to complete this degree. Now, sometimes we have people who complete the Graduate Certificate in TESOL, they go out and get some experience, and they decide that they’d like to take their professional qualifications to the next level. And what they’re able to do is to articulate into the Master of Applied Linguistics programme, because in this case they already have the language-teaching qualification, the Graduate Certificate of TESOL, and so what they’re doing is adding the master’s degree, the Master of Applied Linguistics.

And in doing the Master of Applied Linguistics programme, they wouldn’t be redoing the courses that they’ve already done as part of the Graduate Certificate in TESOL. There are also a couple of other pathways that may be of interest to some of you. One is taking a research route. So some of our students who complete the coursework master’s degree, either the Master of Applied Linguistics or the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL, decide that they’d like to pursue a research pathway, they’d like to go on and do a PhD usually. And so the coursework master’s enables them to go into the second year of the Master of Research programme, the MRES programme at Macquarie, which is the year in which they write a small research thesis in preparation for getting into a PhD programme.

So that’s one possibility that some candidates follow. Another possibility is to pursue a double degree with translation and interpreting studies. So some of our students in the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL programme are studying that degree and the Master of Translation and Interpreting Studies at the same time. And by doing it as a double degree, they save a little bit of time on doing the two degrees separately. Finally, I should say there are people who are interested in applied linguistics, but not particularly looking at English language teaching.

And for those people, the Master of Applied Linguistics is also a good option. It doesn’t include the TESOL component, although some of the units that people do as part of the Master of Applied Linguistics will certainly be relevant to language teaching. But this is a good option for people who are interested in applying linguistics in different fields other than language teaching. By now, you might be curious about the kinds of actual courses or units that you would study as part of a master’s degree. I’ve listed some of them on this slide. There’s a course in research methods in language study.

This is important not only for people who want to do research in applied linguistics, but also for anyone who’s in the field, because it’s important to be able to read the research that’s being done in the field and to make sense of that and think about how it relates to your own practice. Some people are interested in actually going on and doing research themselves, which is great, but that’s not always the case. But in any case, research methods is useful. Other units that are part of the degree include Languages and Cultures in Context– sorry, Languages and Cultures in Contact, I should say. Pragmatics and Intercultural Communication, Classroom Curriculum and Context, Language Learning and Community, Genre of Discourse and Multimodality, which sounds complicated but is really fascinating when you get into it, Literacies, Second Language Acquisition – how people learn second and foreign languages, whatever they are, how this can be looked up from a variety of different perspectives – Exploring Discourse in Context and Action, so this is looking at language as it’s used in a variety of contexts – spoken language, written language – and learning the tools to analyse that in preparation, often for doing something quite practical, making recommendations about how things could be done differently, for instance.

Language Learning Beyond the Classroom, where we talk about the language-learning activities that go on outside formal classroom settings. And then finally, Language Testing and Evaluation – ways in which language is tested, and assessed, and evaluated, either as part of formal language programmes or in the wider world. Many universities in Australia, and indeed in many parts of the world, offer degrees in applied linguistics and TESOL. You may be wondering why Macquarie would be a good choice. One of the attractions, I think, of our master’s degrees and our Graduate Certificate of TESOL, is that it’s designed very flexibly. So people can complete the entire qualification part-time or full-time. They can do it on campus, they can do it online, or a combination of both.

And indeed, we have people doing these master’s degrees, and we’ve had them doing them for the last 15 years or more, from Japan, Korea, China, just to name a few places, Indonesia, many parts of Asia. But also we’ve had a few people completing them from the United States, from Canada, doing the whole degree without setting foot in Australia, let alone setting foot on the campus at Macquarie. I know from talking to those people over the years that they find it a very rewarding experience, doing the degree. Even if they’re doing it online, they would be engaging through the online learning platforms with their colleagues, those on campus, and other colleagues online around the world, sharing ideas. It’s an internationally relevant qualification. So our qualifications are relevant around the world. We know this because our graduates are employed in many, many different countries around the world. And so it’s a degree that’s truly got some international currency, if you like. Our staff, people who teach on these programmes, have often taught themselves in different parts of the world, or have worked in various kinds of employment context in other countries in the world.

So we not only talk about what goes on in language classrooms in Australia, what goes on in institutions in Australia, but we try to take a very global outlook on the issues that come up. It’s also the case that Macquarie University, and specifically the linguistics department, is highly regarded around the world. In the QS university rankings, which some of you may be familiar with, in 2014 Macquarie was ranked as one of the top 50 universities internationally for linguistics.

Applied linguistics is part of a very broad and diverse linguistics department at Macquarie that has clinical programmes, such as audiology and speech pathology, as well as programmes in undergraduate linguistics, translation and interpreting, editing and publishing, and applied linguistics and TESOL. So it’s a very big and diverse department, and a great place to work as well. And we also are involved in a lot of research which helps to contribute to informing our discipline, so that the staff who are teaching the units are active researchers as well. So I hope this has given you a little bit of an idea about some of the programmes we have in applied linguistics at Macquarie. And if you have a passion for language, as I have, I’ve found that this is the perfect way to channel it.

Often, people are very creative in the kinds of careers that they carve out for themselves in either English language teaching, language teaching more broadly, or in applying linguistics in a variety of settings. So I hope that has given you a little bit of an idea how our programmes could contribute to this. And I’ll be very happy to answer your questions. First question I have here comes from Rickon, and says, “If I take a double degree in Master of Translation and Interpreting Studies with a Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL, could I continue into a PhD?” Yeah, very good question. If you complete a double degree– any coursework degree, but including the double degree between Translation and Interpreting Studies and Applied Linguistics and TESOL, this double degree allows you to apply for entry into the second year of the Master of Research programme.

So the first year of the Master of Research programme is a coursework master’s programme, but the second year is where people actually do some research and write it up as a thesis in preparation for applying to a PhD. So it doesn’t get you directly into the PhD, but it allows you to apply for a place in the Master of Research programme in the second year. So skipping the first year. It’s not a guaranteed entry, because accepting people into a Master of Research programme depends on there being an available supervisor for something that that person would like to do research in. But it certainly is a pathway that people use into that degree.

A question from [Sachiko?]. It says, “Is it possible to be an auditor of the class that I’m interested in first?” Certainly when people are actually enrolled at Macquarie, they often ask us, “Can I audit or sit in on a class without enrolling?” And we generally find that there’s space in the classroom. We’re very happy for people to do that. For someone who’s not actually enrolled in the programme at all, I think the best thing to do would be to talk to me as the programme director, or to talk to the convener of the particular course that you want to sit in on, and I’m sure we can arrange for you to do that.

So basically yes. If that’s something you’d like to do, please send me an email and we can arrange it. It’s just important that we know exactly who’s in the classroom, and whether they’re a student of Macquarie or they’re an external visitor. So it’s good to arrange it individually, but certainly that’s something we could arrange. Question from Harvey is next. It says, “I’m already a teacher. Can I get credit towards a grads certificate in TESOL?” That’s a very good question. Basically, with the graduate certificate, because it’s basically a short qualification as it is – it just contains the four units, the three coursework units and the practicum unit – we don’t tend to give credit for any parts of that graduate certificate. Basically, there’s no provision for taking out one unit and giving advanced standing for it. We do get a lot of teachers who come in and do that programme, and if they’re qualified to teach, say in a public school, in a primary school, or a secondary school in a state in Australia, this will give them their ESL specialisation in New South Wales.

And so, we do get people there, but we don’t give credit for previous studies towards that particular degree, the graduate certificate. While we’re just waiting for the next question, I can just expand a little bit on that last point for anyone who’s listening. In the classroom we have people who are basically completely new to teaching, as well as people who are very experienced teachers, but are new to language teaching. And you might think that would be a kind of an odd combination, but strangely it works really well. Both groups seem to enjoy what they can learn from each other. But everyone is learning something because the Graduate Certificate in TESOL is designed to be a sort of up-to-the-minute qualification in English language teaching. So whatever one’s background, it uniquely equips you for teaching in the 21st-century language classroom and being up with the latest methodologies.

Another question I have here from Julie. And she says, “I’ve just finished my BA with a linguistics major. Don’t know if I could cope with studying for a master’s degree, but I’m considering a grads cert in TESOL. There doesn’t seem to be anything in between, such as a diploma. Any reason for this?” We did use to have a diploma level qualification.

We found that it was– I guess, not terribly many people took it up. Some people did, but for better or worse we streamlined it so that we’ve got the graduate certificate and the master’s degree. I think a good way forward would be to start off with the Graduate Certificate in TESOL, and then that gives you a qualification to get started with. And then if you think, “Yeah, I really like this area, I’d like to pursue things further,” then you can continue on with the Master of Applied Linguistics. And since you’ve got a BA with a linguistics major, and you’d have a Graduate Certificate in TESOL, you would be able to complete the master’s degree in one-year full-time equivalent, because you’d get credit for the cognate or related bachelor’s degree and the Graduate Certificate in TESOL. So I think that would be one possible way of going there. Nicole’s asked a question here. She says, “I’m a primary teacher. Will I get credit if I study a Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL?” If you’ve been a language teacher, you would get credit.

If you have been teaching other subjects, subjects other than language, then you wouldn’t get specific credit for that. However, you would get credit for your education qualification, so it would end up being the same thing. The same amount of credit, I should say. So if you’ve got a bachelor’s degree in education or – some people even have a master’s degree in education – but if you have an education degree, then you’re able to complete the Master of Applied Linguistics and TESOL in one and a half years. So you would get basically six months of advanced standing for that related bachelor’s degree. We call it RPL or recognition of prior learning. So if you hear the term RPL, it basically means that the prior learning is being recognised, and the degree is being shortened as a result.

Got a question here from Lee, who says, “I’m planning to undertake your department’s grad cert in editing next year. I’m wondering if it can, at all, be credited towards the Master’s of Applied Linguistics.” I’m thinking that– I would say yes. If your first degree was in an area that’s closely related to applied linguistics, then you would get credit anyway. You’d get the– you’d be able to do the course in one-and-a-half-years full-time equivalent. But if your degree was in a different area and you came in with a graduate certificate in editing and publishing as an add-on there, I think this would be kind of a judgement call. But I think the judgement that we would make in that case is that that’s a very relevant qualification. So we would take that together with your bachelor’s degree as previous studies in a related area, and give you advanced standing or credit for that previous study, yes. Got a question now from Kate, who says, “I’m considering the research pathway, but don’t currently have experience in that field. Is there a strong research community in applied linguistics at Macquarie?” Certainly there’s a very strong research community in applied linguistics here at Macquarie, and this is something I guess Macquarie University generally is pushing very hard.

But I think Macquarie University has tended in the– I guess the history of applied linguistics in the department which goes back to about 1987, there’s always been a very strong research culture, so certainly it’s very likely to be researchers in the area that you’re interested in. If you would like to send me an email with your specific areas of interest, I can put you in touch with the right people, depending on what particular area of research you’re interested in pursuing. Just expanding for a minute on the research areas. A number of the staff members of Macquarie in applied linguistics are interested in researching language teaching and learning. And some are interested in say language classrooms, doing research that’s classroom based, others are interested in research that’s on language learning outside the classroom. And in my case, I find– one of the areas that I’m really interested in is language learning motivation.

So what motivates language learners? What demotivates them? And there’s a lot of research that’s been done in that area, and I have a number of PhD students who are working and have worked in that particular area. Other people are interested in looking at applied linguistics outside the realm of language teaching. So they’ll be interested in language in the workplace, language in a variety of professional contexts. So another area that I’m interested in. I came from a medical background originally into linguistics. So one of my research areas is medical communication or health-care communication. And so we have students who are nurses and other health professionals who are interested in communication in their profession. Which is a really, really big area in the popular media, as well as in the research literature. And this is an area where applied linguistics really has something to contribute. And people coming with previous backgrounds in another field are uniquely placed to bring those two fields together. I’ve just got another question here from Lee, saying, “Do you have many students juggling work and study?” I would say yes. It’s interesting, the majority of our online students would be juggling work and study.

Many of them probably have full-time jobs. I shouldn’t say probably. I know many of them do have full-time jobs, but I would say probably the majority of the online students have full-time jobs. So it’s possible to simply study just one-course unit per semester if they wish, or two units per semester, or to change from one semester to another, depending on how their work commitments go. We also have a number of international students, and international students who study on campus, they have to study full-time because of visa requirements, but they are allowed to work a certain number of hours per week.

And many of them do work, so they are also juggling study and work commitments. And it is a juggle, of course, but we have a lot of people doing that. And if you’re a domestic student and you have the luxury of being able to study part-time, then that’s a good option. Another question from Lee. Another Lee. It says, “My Internet access on the train home has been a little intermittent. Will the slides and video from the webinar be available later online?” And I see that Steph has answered that question for me. So yes, I think that’s the plan, and if you– yes, you can. If everyone can see that question and see– if everyone can see the answer, then you know what to do. If not, you can drop me an email and I’ll pass it on to Steph, who’s organising the session, Steph and Theresa, and they’ll be able to provide you the details.

Another question I have here from Julie, says, “I was advised that as I haven’t had any teaching experience, if I took the grad cert TESOL I should do it over two semesters rather than one. However, I worked in the medical field for decades and I’m used to dealing with people. I think I’m empathetic and understanding. Do you think I would cope in the course full-time?” I think yes. We sometimes tell people that if they’re not in any particular hurry to complete the grad cert, it’s often a good idea to do it over two semesters. Partly because this allows them to do the practicum after they’ve done some or all of the coursework units. However, we’ve designed it to be done in six months, in one semester. So if people say, “I want to get it done in six months,” and you’ve got the time to do it, then I would strongly encourage you, “Yes, go for it.” I think that that would be fine.

If you find that it’s– if you started off and you found in the first couple of weeks, you say, “Oh dear, this is going to be too much. I’d like to drop a unit and pick it up next semester instead,” that’s still possible. There’s a certain cut-off date which we call the census date. And before that date, if you withdraw from a unit, then it disappears completely from your record. You’re not required to pay for it, and you can pick it up at another time. But it’s really important if you want to do that to make sure you withdraw from the unit before this census date. But certainly, if you’re thinking of doing it full-time and you’ve got the time to do that and that’s what you’d like to do, I’d certainly say go ahead.

Got another question here from Joylene. Similar to a previous question. “I’ve completed the Master of Arts TESOL at a different university, and I’ve been working as an ESL teacher at a primary school for several years. Unfortunately, the New South Wales department of education doesn’t recognise my master’s, hence why I’m interested in your grad cert TESOL programme. So to clarify, could at least one unit be considered for RPL? Or is that unlikely as it is only a grad certificate and quite a short course? I’m hoping to get my linguistics unit from my master’s degree recognised.” That’s a really good question, Joylene.

We don’t have many people with TESOL master’s degrees coming into our programme, but I think in– so that’s really quite a special case. What I would say is if you put in an application and send me an email at the same time just letting me know, reminding me of your situation, I can discuss that with Phil Chappell, who’s the convener of the programme, and see if there’s any scope for giving you credit there. One issue, we don’t normally do it because it is a very short programme, and I’m not sure whether the university actually would allow us to do it, just because there are certain rules about what percentage of the degree or qualification must be studied at Macquarie. But certainly we could investigate it for you and see if that might be possible. So do get in touch with us about that and we’ll investigate it, because this is quite a special situation, I think.

Question now from Sam Hun. And Sam Hun says, “I have several books that I used in BA for English education. They’re teaching about principles and how languages are learned, and so on. These are the titles of the books. They are related to language learning. Are they useful for classes?” Certainly. They would be useful. I know How Languages are Learned, and I think that’s a really, really good book. It’s related particularly to the course that I teach, which is Second Language Acquisition. It’s not the set textbook that we use for the Second Language Acquisition course, but I find if people have read that book – it’s a very readable book – if they’ve read it before or they read it while they’re doing the course, I think it would really help them. So certainly How Languages are Learned is a very useful book. It’s not our set textbook, but it’s a really useful one to have. Teaching by Principles, I’m not sure whether any of our units taught by other people might use that one, but certainly I think it’s good grounding.

And I’m not familiar with that particular book, so I can’t really comment on that one. But How Languages are Learned certainly would be a useful one. Joylene asks some, “Could the practicum be completed at my current workplace?” Often, yes. What this depends on is the presence of someone at the workplace or someone who’s available and has the qualifications to be a supervising teacher. So it depends on the individual workplaces where people are. But in some cases, in many cases, we arrange placements for students in the practicum at language centres, language schools, where there is a supervising teacher who’s able to help them through the practicum.

We have a practicum coordinator here at Macquarie, who’s Janice Ford, and so she gives input as well. But because people are doing practicums at multiple locations, they need someone there as well. So it just depends on whether we can find someone who’s got the appropriate qualifications and is willing to take on that role. But very often the practicum can be done at a workplace where someone is already based or already has some connection. I think that wraps up the questions that we have for tonight, so I’d really like to thank you all for tuning in.

And if you don’t mind taking a few minutes just to complete the survey that you’ll see popping up on your screen now, that would be really useful for us in knowing how to do these things in the future, and perhaps how we can improve and what sort of information people need, and what sort of format is most useful for them. But I hope that any of you who are passionate about language in whatever way, if you’re looking for a way of engaging that passion and channelling it somewhere, do consider our programmes here at Macquarie. And please drop me an email if you’ve got any further questions. Thanks very much..

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